How Do You Beat Bad Buyers on Amazon and eBay?

Almost every experienced online marketplace seller will have a story of how some smart – or not so smart – bad buyers have attempted to trick money or goods out of them.

These customers might claim that their goods didn’t arrive on time, or wear clothes to a party before returning them as ‘not as described’. At the other end of the spectrum, buyers have returned parcels packed with garbage instead of the item originally sent, or submitted completely false ‘item not received’ claims.

Some of the reasons for returning an item can be downright funny. In a Web Retailer forum thread about outlandish reasons given for returns, member Easiliving said, “We once had a customer return an eye patch because their kids thought they were being invaded by pirates!”

But bad buyers are not often a source of amusement. A significant number of buyers are tempted into scamming the system, often believing it to be a ‘victimless crime’. But it isn’t victimless if you’re losing money and having your reputation damaged in the eyes of the marketplace.

In this post, I’ll look at some common examples of buyer fraud, talk about steps you can to take to help prevent it, and explain how you can increase the likelihood of cases being resolved in your favor by eBay or Amazon.

Item Not Received

One of the most irritating tricks bad buyers play is saying that they have not received an item. By obtaining a refund or replacement they effectively get the goods for free, or obtain multiple items for the price of one.

Postal services around the world certainly do lose post – out of the billions of items handled every year, even a tenth of one percent loss rate means millions of items disappear each year. It’s an easy thing for dishonest buyers to exploit.

Many sellers have stories of customers falsely claiming their item was not received. In another forum thread, on the topic of buyer scams, Bigian13 said:

Customer claimed they had not received their item but had ordered several items from other eBay sellers and they had all arrived. We contacted other sellers who had left automatic feedback for the same buyer, and guess what, they had been told the same story.

If they hadn’t been contacted, those sellers might never have realized they were being scammed. Even if you feel certain that a claim is false, you still have to go through a potentially long-winded process with eBay or Amazon’s seller support team to deal with it. Without documentary evidence to back you up (and sometimes even with it) the claim could go either way.

At some stage you have to consider how much your time is worth. If the hours on the phone start to rack up, you may find it cheaper to write it off – even if the fraud is clear.

So what can you do to tackle the ‘item not received’ scam? Here are some suggestions:

Use Tracked Delivery

This is the most common solution. Using a tracked parcel delivery service means you get proof of delivery – usually a signature scan – to show that the item was received.

The problem with tracked delivery services is that the cost can be prohibitive, particularly for low-value items. It’s painful to accept, but the cost of tracked delivery might be more than just letting buyers get away with it.

For example, you might refund 10 orders out of every 200 due to false item not received claims. That’s a 5% fraud rate – a figure that many sellers give. Sending everything tracked might add $2 to each order, and you may need to absorb that cost to avoid losing sales. That’s $400 to avoid refunding 10 orders. In this example, if your average order value is below $40 then tracked delivery just won’t be worth it financially.

Perhaps surprisingly, using tracked delivery isn’t a completely watertight solution. Even when you have proof of delivery, buyers can – and sometimes do – claim that the signature is not theirs. But in most cases, being asked to sign for a delivery will deter most bad buyers.

What Else Can You Do?

If you have the time and ability to investigate bad buyers in-house, you might find you can fight back against some of them yourself. Web Retailer member Bigian13 caught one out who claimed not to have received an eBay order, but then made a direct website purchase using a discount code that was included in the package:

On each of our paper invoices we used to have a channel specific web address to guide people to our website. That way we could track the direct traffic better. This invoice had a customer specific discount code for their first order from the website. One customer claimed they had not received their order from ebay, around £60 worth, and then ordered several items from our website using their unique code. Bit of a tell tale sign! Unfortunately for them they lived quite close to our warehouse so a visit from our “debt collection agency” soon sorted this one out.

A lot of sellers include discount coupons with their eBay orders to encourage direct purchases in the future. A downside that few consider is the risk of upsetting bargain-hunters by making them feel like they have overpaid!

UK eBay expert Andrew Minalto has a more ‘black-hat’ idea (that he does not condone) to get the deterrence effect of tracked delivery without the cost, by adding a label to packages to give the appearance of tracking:

Basically you attach a label to the package that displays a barcode and a serial number… If you go this route, don’t make that label too similar to Royal Mail labels as then the post office may refuse to accept your parcel.

It may seem unethical (and ironic) to resort to deception to ward off scammers, but you could see it as similar to the decoy security cameras used by many businesses. Both give the appearance of being watched, when you actually are not.

Returns Abuse

Amazon and eBay have generous return policies that favour the buyer. It’s easy for customers to take advantage of that. The most common complaint for sellers is that orders are returned with a reason of ‘item not as described’, entitling the buyer to a free return, when the real reason is something completely different.

In a forum thread, Web Retailer member seller252gregb said:

I have had items returned because of the color not matching what they saw on their screen so it becomes item not as described and no cost to them for return. When the item arrives it appears to have been used at least once but cannot be proven.

Returning used items is such a common practice in fashion retailing that there is even a name for it: wardrobing. This is when shoppers purchase items with the intention of using them and then returning them. It’s a common practice, which 1 in 6 women have admitted to, but make no mistake – its fraud.

Wardrobing is very difficult to prove. Buyers who do this will often make efforts to keep items in pristine condition while they use them, leaving tags attached and handling the packaging with great care. A careful inspection may show up tell-tale signs of use, which might be enough to make it impossible to resell the item as new, but perhaps too little to satisfy eBay or Amazon that you’ve been scammed.

Even ordinarily honest people may be tempted to return an item that has been used, but others will go much further. It’s not unheard of for a customer to buy a product, say it was not as described, and then send back something entirely different.

On his blog, technology consultant and writer Jeff Reifman, describes his battle with Amazon.com over a fraudulent return. Reifman sold a valuable second-generation Apple TV unit for $199, only to have a used third-generation Apple TV, almost identical in appearance but worth only $65, returned instead of the equipment originally purchased. Amazon refused to believe him and spent over a year denying his claim against the buyer.

What Can You Do About It?

Returns abuse, particularly wardrobing, is very difficult to fight. It’s often just your word against the buyer’s, without any tangible evidence to help you make your case.

Essentially, you have to show two things: that you sent a specific product in a specific condition, and that the buyer returned the same product in a different condition (e.g. used or damaged), or a different product altogether. Despite the brazenness of this scam, once the return parcel has been opened the evidence is no longer reliable – as they might say on CSI!

It’s impractical for most businesses to record the packaging and dispatch of every order, but you should be able to show invoices to prove that you bought the product from your own supplier. In the case of high-end items, it’s a good practice to record the serial number or IMEI of products as they are sent out. Then you can compare it against the serial number of the product sent back.

When a return is received, one solution is to record on video the sealed return package being weighed, opened and unwrapped. Bigian13 describes how that approach has worked in his business:

eBay, in their wisdom, allowed the customer to send the item back to us at our cost. The item was returned in a medium jiffy bag. This immediately raised concerns as we do not sell any item small enough to fit in one. Luckily we took videos and photos of the item prior, during and after unwrapping. In the jiffy bag was a used roll of 2″ parcel tape and some bubble wrap. The item that was sent out to them measured 30″ x 20″ x 8″. eBay decided in our favour!

Such measures can save a lot of time in the dispute process, but there’s no guarantee that you will win when faced with a determined fraudster.

Can’t You Just Refuse to Accept Returns?

Whether you need to accept returns depends on two main factors:

  • The laws of the country you are selling to.
  • The rules of the marketplace you are selling on.

Under US law, online sellers do not have to accept returns, so it all comes down to marketplace rules. On eBay in the US, accepting returns is optional but from May 1, 2016, Top Rated sellers must offer a 30-day money-back return policy to keep their status. Amazon.com, however, sets a high bar for all sellers and does not allow them to refuse to accept returns.

In the UK, very detailed Consumer Contracts Regulations require sellers to accept returns – for any reason – for 14 days from when the buyer received the order. The customer has to pay for the return costs, unless the seller is at fault in some way. On eBay in the UK, their returns policy is in line with the law, but Amazon.co.uk goes further, requiring sellers to accept returns for 30 days from receipt of the item.

So even though eBay US sellers can technically refuse to accept returns, they are definitely encouraged to do so. Offering a generous returns policy can also be a good business practice, to give the buyer confidence that they can’t lose out by buying from you. But still, for some sellers protecting themselves against bad buyers, even if it means lower sales, is more important.

In Closing

Stories abound of sellers fruitlessly fighting the marketplace for their money or goods back, after being defrauded by buyers.

Many sellers complain that marketplaces always side with the buyer, unless they can prove that the customer is at fault – leaving the seller to play detective. eBay proudly describe their seller protection system, but Amazon does not talk about their equivalent.

Both marketplaces describe abusive claims and bad buyers as “rare” – a word that many sellers would not themselves choose to describe their encounters with scammers. So they continue to fight bitterly, on the principle that dishonest customers should not be allowed to get away with it.

Other sellers have learned not to take it so personally, and can make calm financial decisions about bad buyers just like everything else in their business. Fraud becomes just another business cost, whether it’s returning used items (which many would agree only just crosses the line into criminality) to outright theft when items are ordered with the intention, right from the start, of claiming that they were never received.

Even if five percent of your revenue disappears to fraud, is it worth spending hours investigating and responding to each dispute, when there’s only a slim chance of getting your money back?

For many sellers, the battle against bad buyers continues to rage, even when it doesn’t make financial sense. Why is that? Well, we are all human. Our heads might tell us that it’s just not worth it, but in our hearts we know they just can’t be allowed to get away with it.

How do you protect yourself against bad buyers? I’d love to hear from you in the comments below.

Comments

Karen
Karen

Now, I mostly dropship from very reliable suppliers with good return policies, and never list an item that I can't afford to lose. That said, I have never yet lost a case; I'm very nice to the claims department, but I'll fight bad buyers like a wildcat every time. This is not just for me, but also for other sellers who might be scammed by the same buyer. I also treat good buyers like royalty.

lorraine
lorraine
In reply to lorraine

Can you give some advice as to how to fight the claims department. I am currently facing this now.

Nick
Nick
In reply to Nick

1. detailed recodings of the items you sell
In example, every and I mean every item I sell prior to sending is fully photographed. and sometimes also shot on video complete to packaging, then the packages is also photographed both sides and send with registered airmail.
2. On the listing DO NOT write to many praises about the item.
Just a description on what it is make good and clear images for the presentation ( same about images - poses you'll have to do before sending with the buyers address on a papper and or date).

Now if you have made these you have some good chance of winning a case.
Unfortunatelly ebay favors the buyers and there are few things we honest sellers can do.

Hope this helped.

Jack Phillips
Jack Phillips

I have a very generous returns policy. Generally speaking, returns are not that much of a problem. I do get a few people saying they are "damaged" but don't want to return it (sniffing for a discount). I offer paid returns. If they refuse, I then ask for a photograph. I have had people say they don't have cameras, I just tell those folks there is nothing I can do.

I have noticed an increased frequency of lost packages that are marked as delivered. Most of the time, I just eat the cost as there is not much I can do. For overseas, I track it and charge more to ship to those areas based on the previous frequency and severity of the loss. Currently, South America has a 20% surcharge on their shipping (20% of the shipping cost). This mitigates the losses quite a bit to the detriment of sales somewhat.

Amir
Amir

To be honest I am tired of the Amazon return policy we sell cosmetics products the buyers always say the item is not as describe after using the item for 30 days, they write us it is not a authentic product never give the result we tell them it's depends people to people with different hair and skin types, then they place negative feedback and AtoZ claim some time even charge back claims

Elkin
Elkin
In reply to Elkin

I've just had a similar experiance with AMAZON today, in fact. A person bought a VHS tape that was still in its wrapper. I listed it for .85 and sent it to her and paid the postage. Well, when she gets the tape, she said it would not work and did not and would not, send the tape back to me. But, oh yes, she wanted ALL of her money back: .85 plus the $3.99 . At first, I gave her the .85 and kept the shipping cost of $3.99. So, then, she leaves a bad feedback stating that I sent a bad tape and that I was dishonest. It is not a bad tape b/c where it came from the people who make these tapes view every one and makes sure that they work. So, long story short, I ended up giving her back the $4.84; lost the money I spent to ship her the tape; lost the tape; and got a bad review! I know this person is lieing about the tape and will just resell it.

This same senario has hapened to me three times with AMAZON. The other two times I lost $20 and $11 .

I closed my AMAZON account today. AMAZON takes forever paying me my money as it is and then dealing with dishonest people is something I'm not going to do.

I do, however, keep a black book and I have 3 online businesses and anyone in that blackbook will NEVER buy from me again!

Bobby
Bobby
In reply to Bobby

Selling something for $0.85 with $4 already implies you are giving it away to everyone who for whatever reason is not satisdied with it.

That is because it is apparent that you are better off leaving it with them than spending money on getting it back.

That's the economics of it and it is irrelevant to the types of buyers and their reasoning.

Second, I think it is naive to think anyone will take advantage of you for $0.85 with the idea of reselling your tape.
Whatever her reasoning was I am ready to bet it wasn't that.

Finally , the black book is a waste of time. If someone wants to buy from you they will.

None of that means your buyer was right in what she did.

The question was how to beat cheaters and I stick to my original answer - you don't.

J Goldberg
J Goldberg

A couple of observations...

1. This piece reads more like a beginner's guide to scamming e-commerce merchants than one offering merchants advice on how to handle such scammers.

2. There's a difference between a return and a refund; eBay won't force a seller to accept a "return" of merchandise, however they can force a "refund" of the purchase price.

Andy Geldman
Andy Geldman
In reply to Andy Geldman

Thanks for the clarification on returns vs refunds.

It's not really possible to talk about this topic without explaining how the scams are done, if that's what you mean.

What advice would you add for merchants?

Scarfking
Scarfking
In reply to Scarfking

We were scammed twice from China, once on Amazon, once on Ebay. Since there is no tracking within China, they just claim it never arrived. On Amazon, you are helpless: you will lose. Ebay has their Seller Protection Policy, but, surprise, if the buyer makes the claim through Pay Pal rather than Ebay, you are not covered. And all Ebay transactions go through PayPal, leaving a pretty big hole in their Seller Protection.

With some effort Pay Pal refunded us, but we no longer ship to China from either platform and we will need to reexamine our international shipping policy on our website, perhaps restricting payment for international shipments, because PayPal's refund policy supersedes the policy we post on our website. Be aware that you are not protected by your own website policies.

jerkface
jerkface
In reply to jerkface

ABUSIVE COMMENT DELETED

Andy Geldman
Andy Geldman
In reply to Andy Geldman

We don't tolerate abuse here. It sounds like you have something valid to add, but there is no need for name calling to make your point.

TJ
TJ
In reply to TJ

"This piece reads more like a beginner’s guide to scamming e-commerce merchants than one offering merchants advice on how to handle such scammers.

Also my first thought after reading this article.

I sell apparel on eBay, which I've been fortunate to not have many returns in general.

SAME Exact Items, I also sell on Amazon, have 8% returns rate thru FBM channel and a ridiculous 20 to sometimes as high as 40% rate of return on FBA channel.

Needless to say, I had no choice but to stop using the FBA channel to send in FREE Merchandise for Amazon and the thieves to profit from!

Nick
Nick
In reply to Nick

Yes they do force a return and a refund,99,99% of the times they decide in favor of the buyer and force the seller to accept a paid return, or the buyer keeps the item and gets refund as well.

nakaode
nakaode
In reply to nakaode

Not True. it just happened to me today. so.

Tina
Tina

What if someone bought something from you on Amazon. Then requested a refund on the 29 day. Then kept the book for three more weeks and had it for over 2 months then decides to return it? I refused a refund and I also closed my account woth Amazon. There refund policies are to generous. I have had to refund items that were sent back trashed. I stopped selling DVD's because people were copying them and then wanting a refund. I have no trouble on E-bay at all.

Issam Mansour
Issam Mansour

We were defrauded by an ebay buyer, “Pluczavroh" who contacted us rom ebay but asked for invoices from PayPal and they said he should have rceived three times what was sent. This is big money of $27016.00 He has our goods and has his money. Thanks American Express the helper to those who scam.

ScarfKing
ScarfKing
In reply to ScarfKing

Sorry to hear that. I don't understand the Amex connection if they were using PayPal?
Where was the buyer located and where did you ship to?

Bamf
Bamf

If you don't accept the return from ebay, no big deal for the buyer, he just files a Paypal claim, he has 180 days to do it. Paypal gives you no choice but to accept the return merchandise or they keep the money that they froze from your account when the return was open. Then the ebay buyer leaves you negative feedback and gets your money and you parts. There is no seller protection on ebay or paypal. You can buy something on ebay, return it as "not a described" then they send back a bag of sh*t. The ebay seller calls ebay and says "I received a bag of sh*t, not my parts" ebay then states "well, we can't just take your word for it, you have to make the buyer admit (through ebay's messaging system mind you) that he, in fact, sent you a bag of sh*t.." if he doesn't admit to it.. guess what.. you lose your money, your parts and most certainly will receive negative feedback.. these are the undisputed facts!

Harry
Harry
In reply to Harry

With modern technology can't ebay and amazon track how often buyers are making claims and shut their accounts if they go over the norm ?

Hank
Hank
In reply to Hank

Nice to know this! I'm going to return bag of fresh sh!t on my next Ebay purchase.

Stuart
Stuart

That has not been my experience at all, and I was told by Amazon support just today that FBA shipments are the responsibility of Amazon, and they will make good on any "lost" shipments. Hopefully, I will not have to find out the truth of that.

Stuart
Stuart

Amazon has a Retarded thing where if an Order is cancelled, the Buyer can Leave 0-Stars, in All kinds of Areas that don't even Apply to the Transaction. Like, the Order was "Not as described," even while Admitting that they never got the Product. A Single disgruntled and Very Rude individual can Easily ruin decades of impeccable Selling on amazon- (if they are the only one who decides to leave feedback)- by Leaving a single negative feedback

Mark
Mark

How about the newest way to scam an Amazon seller. Even with Signature Confirmation. Post Office attempts to deliver the item and "no one home" or "refuses to sign" then buyer opens and A TO Z for INR, Amazon decides the claim in the Buyer's favor and then they go to the post office and sign for their item. And Amazon places it on the Seller to take any legal action at THEIR expense. And Amazon made it even easier by lower the claim time to 3 days because why should a scammer have to wait 7 days to get their item for free. And the post office holds the item for 2 weeks before shipping it back. Now a seller USED to have the time to recall the package from the post office if they can but no longer with only 3 days.

Tammy
Tammy
In reply to Tammy

I bought something from amazon we had delivery guys that were throwing our packages out in our field, in the road all sorts of places and then mark it delivered to owner spoke to at door. I complained to amazon i never got package, they said TOUGH it shows delivery on tracking, so i was out the product with no recourse and wasnt even allowed to leave feedback!!!!

Scott Brown
Scott Brown
In reply to Scott Brown

Sad, but USPS will hold packages for 10 days. As you said, after 3 days the customer gets their funds returned and they subsequently go to the PO and pick up their package.

Truseller
Truseller

Enough is enough. Quit offering buyers returns. This is an online business not some retail department store, if they want that kind of treatment they should just go to the store and buy it. Return all they want. I refuse my buyers of any returns just due to the fact that many just abuses it. It is NOT okay for them to buy then just return it because they're done using it, or just don't feel like keeping it anymore, the items vaule becomes deappreciated by the time they've decided they want to return. Sorry but not sorry.

elsa
elsa
In reply to elsa

i don't see how you refuse returns. i do not accept returns but eBay basically forces sellers to give refunds and blocks the money on PayPal so how do you even do that?
i have a problem with a fake return thats why i am asking

elsa
elsa

i was just forced by eBay to refund a buyer for a bag they used and damaged a 1000usd plus bag and the buyer claimed it was damaged.now i am stocked having to pay for return shipping loosing the money of the actual shipping and a damaged item hopefully i receive horrible marketplace that doesn't protect the seller they just send ready answers that never address your problem

Tammy
Tammy

I took back a phone buyer put her email and password all over the phone, I cant even wipe it out, they have that password protected. So I have a $449 phone that is worthless she keeps her money, I paid for it to go to her and back to me to have her damage it. I won the case but I didnt win anything?? She got her way already, I called to find out what it was I had won, and they said I would have to appeal the case, I said why I already won it youshould have either made her take the phone back since she wanted it enough to put passwords all over it, and give me the money plus my postage back. We will see tomorrow what happens

Elizabeth M
Elizabeth M

I sold a diamond ring to a woman on eBay. She claimed it was not as described indicating that it was a half size larger than the listing. She had taken it to a jeweler who heated and stretched the ring causing dimples along the side of the ring where the diamonds are set. EBay did not make me accept the return but PayPal did with the condition that the item was in the same condition in which it was sent. So the lady sends me back a worthless piece of junk that I can't wear or sell, because she had it improperly sized. PayPal returned her money before I got the ring back, and they never looked at the mountain of evidence I provided to prove what she did to my ring. I am probably going to take her to small claims court. It will cost me more to travel to her state than I would win, but until buyers start getting sued and prosecuted for this garbage, nothing will change. I am not going to sell anything on eBay that is worth more than $100 any more.

Tammy
Tammy
In reply to Tammy

It's called Class Action Lawsuit Baby and I'm with you!!! I got back a worthless iphone 5S so you let me know when your ready and I know the place to start it going!!! My seller spot on ebay is empty right now and I'm thinking seriously about going to another user friendly money handler other than Paypal!! You should have gotten your money back from Ebay because there is a rule that buyers are not allowed to alter or even change in the tinest bit an item unless they are sure they are keeping it once they do it , the item becomes theirs! look up sellers rights and buyer obligations. And check into your states statues my seller broke every fraud and impersination to obtain property law there is both federal and local.

malex
malex

The last case I have faced was a 'not as described returned' stating that the item sent was damaged, full of dirt and scratches.

I sent to paypal the pictures of the item but not taken into account! The buyer damaged himself the item before claiming and returning it !!!

Nothing you can do against that!

Finally I stoped selling on plateforms with buyer protections, simple.

malex
malex

ebay does not allow sellers to rate buyers after a scam unless they leave an evaluation ! which they never do !

That is a real problem ! Seller should be given to inform the community of those buyers !

Elizabeth M
Elizabeth M

I got a 70% refund from PayPal after appealing the refund given to the buyer. I had to send numerous before and after photos, a video opening the returned package, a letter from the jeweler stating the diminished value of the ring, and sign an affidavit which explained how I was defrauded by the buyer. This process took about 25 days. I realized in my research that I could have sued PayPal in my state by by suing the registered agent. Most states require a company like PayPal that does business in the state to have a registered agent that is registered with the secretary's of state office. If I had not gotten a reasonable refund offer from PayPal, I would have taken the registered agent to small claims court. I could have filed online and I would only have to show up for the court date. I still would have had to jump through all of PayPal's hoops before filing, or the case would have been thrown out. I took all of my items off of eBay, because I can't afford to loose money with absolutely no seller protection. If there is a place where I can sell my wares and have some protection from scammers, please let me know.

Scott Brown
Scott Brown

Very good general rules to follow.

False SNAD or denial of receipt is a bigger problem than Amazon and Ebay are willing to admit publicly. And as always the losses are borne to the seller.
Ebay at least has "seller requirements" and "report a buyer" options which over time do help slightly. Amazon does not.

I propose that just like Walmart and many other retailers have a "frequent returner" policy preventing or limiting the number of returns, I would like to see a program where we could set our Checkouts to automatically DECLINE a purchase from a buyer who has made "X" amount of SNAD or LOST PACKAGE claims over "X" period of time.

This information is clearly available on the marketplaces.. and our individual internal systems.

I'm further hoping that one day, we will be sending that information back to the Credit Card providers as well. This is the clearest way of stopping it at the source. Per my previous conversation with the card companies, they don't care to do it, as they are only interested in revenue stream.... Unless/Until all the sellers stand together and make a stink, nothing will ever change.

Does anyone else here believe that the card companies should take the responsibility since the technology is there and they are the FINAL stop for the credit?

Tammy
Tammy

Why should they when paypal won't even honor purchases through there site when they have seller protection, oh wait, you didn't ask for it before you sold the item? It was suppose to be automatic when you signed up! That is what one of there selling points is that they cover all of it. They would let me start a case and it was a fraud case. No one will???? Isn't that strange, but according to the law, I have 4 years where I can file a law suit and I sold the Item in florida so buyer will have to come here! I have to pay Florida taxes on every item I sell that means the item was sold here so the case will be here in florida, and it is a criminal case for fraud along with the money for damages. Yes the credit card companies have to honor any purchase made with the card but cover a seller naw never will happen, you need to get insurance to cover you if you are selling high priced items. I was just selling my personal phone, lesson learned won't ever do that again on line, onl in person. Ebay gets all the junk in my house basically from now on!!!!

moonapteacup100
moonapteacup100

Theres no seller protection.

After changing to not accepting returns now I mostly get returns instead of INR cases, got very few items actually returned.

All my negative feedback without any merits.

When theres a real problem Im always working it out with the buyer as they want to use the item.

I have to refund for 100% OK items and often also to take the bad FB despite a full refund.

Report them to badbuyerlist.org

Ebay_sucks
Ebay_sucks

Agreed, there's no seller protection. It's a big joke. There's a few good buyers but the bad apples WILL ruin the experience for you. It was better when you could leave feedback on the buyer. Never had a problem until recently. It's getting worse on there. I'm quitting selling my used stuff and it is going straight to donation.

When there's a problem, you can't even email Ebay. They have no email support. An online retailer and you have to reach them by phone to resolve an issue or case! Unreal.

Allen
Allen

I was just ripped off on a return. A buyer wikibuycom just chnaged their mind on an item they bought from me. It was a 107$ gos. I refused because they used it. Ebay forced me to take the return. I received the item back and it wasnt in tye new condition it was in when i shipped it. Ebay allowed the buyerbto rip me off. I then found out wikibuycom is an actual website wikibuy.com. they sell stuff on ebay and earn a profit. If someone returns the item to wikibuy they then put the responsibility on the ebay seller to loose out. EBAY ALLOWS THIS!

Allen
Allen

Sorry for the typos. Its late and my typing on my phone is horrible.

Haziel
Haziel

How to be a member??

Mike Oldfield
Mike Oldfield

To the author of the article: I agree with posts that do not find it of a very high quality in terms of helping. It has enough juice to trigger Google search and I can't honestly accuse it of being biased, but it's still pretty much useless.

And that is because one can NOT beat scammers and idiot customers. The two are different groups, but the rules of the game are such that both can beat sellers and there's absolutely nothing sellers can do about it on individual case basis.

This is because both eBay and Amazon are not so interested in determining TRUE or FAIR business as they are in optimizing their profit, i.e. least efficient way to sell most, i.e. with minimal headaches.

Since they succeed in that the best advice a seller would get from their own support teams is to accept the reality that there is always a fraud and focus on growing the business and making more sales.

And this is definitely valuable and helpful advice from a certain standpoint.

What it teaches people is to accept being cheated and not fight back. Because it's pointless.

Which is another way of saying WTF cares about anyone's truth?!

The best I've come up with in response to that is to just put yourself in the shoes of a bad buyer: take full advantage of the system while you can.

Also get as many sales out of eBay and Amazon as you can. I they don't care about your own proven system of dealing with counterfeit why should you follow their own system for generating them money?!

Sure enough these advises break laws - first laws of the marketplace and then possibly laws of the country.

But if eBay and Amazon do it on a daily basis why should that be their exclusive right?!

Steph
Steph

Sorry no help. Per your #1 - when the companies such as Amazon/Ebay knows the seller is a fraud and allows the seller it to continue selling items. Per your #2 - A "buyer" shouldn't have to deal with a "fraudulent/scam" after it has been proven to be true. A phone call shouldn't even have to occur to the individuals/scammers. They don't deserve that kind of courtesy and should be shut down immediately. Per your #3 -These are "blunt obvious" fraudulent scammers and not a simple mistake made by a new seller. Maybe, there should be different policies put in place if the seller has been immediately found to be an "blunt obvious" fraud or scammer. Per your #5, #6, and #7 - Not much the FBI, local police or DA's office can do especially when most of the fraud/scammers are overseas. Per your #8 - a buyers time is gone dealing with the hassle plus getting their money back may take weeks, months, if not years, in which could and should have been prevented instead of allowing it to continue.

Bobby
Bobby

I didn't try to be positive or uplifting, but rather objective and fair.

Speaking of which, when you ship hundreds of items per week with a few returns a month what are you doing in this thread to begin with?!

No offense meant nor taken - the point is that in any business there will be returns and if your rate is below a percent then you are so much before both Internet and retail standards for return issues you simply do not belong where they are disscussed.

The point that if there are many returns means seller is not doing something well is valid within a certain scope.

It fails if same customer base at our own site yields tenfold less problems.

Do I make that up?

Decide for yourself:

1) eBay has a category called "Specialty services:Restoration and repair"

This is where people send in something to be serviced and returned.

Yet at least one in ten places an order thinking they are buying a physical good.

Could it be because for 10 years ebay fails to update their page templates continue referring to it as an 'item'?

Or specify delivery date as if is actually going to be shipped by vendor?

No, neither of the two. There are still morons who would buy it anyway.

They can't do that at our site though. Because we do not take money upfront. Well we also call it service and do not give fake delivery dates, but that is secondary.

In a nutshell our business is different than yours.

There, said it instead of you.

There is more to it, of course.

Our business also deals with parts. All other businesses that sell parts have same problem, except we sell rare manually refurbished parts where you can't just throw one out and pick another.

So when customers buy and abuse those we incur substantial loss.

And the problem happens when customer admits to returning used part - quite against the terms and conditions - and ebay flushes you down because you did not call their attention the proper way. Three months ago it was because of something else.

We do not call them a lot. Not at all.

We've done this for so long we just know better than to call them a lot.

Which is not a solution, since they are the power and they are not after justice, they are a commercial entity.

The less you rely on them the better you will be.

Jack Phillips
Jack Phillips

I'm on a lot of threads here and do a lot of reviews. The thread is "How do you beat bad buyers" and comment on threads when I have time. I take steps to avoid and mitigate risks bad buyers. From your post you have been selling as long as I have - 20 years. These are things you learn to do rather than blaming eBay. I get frustrated with them sometimes too but then I have to regroup and find a way to make it work or stop selling on the platform.

Bobby
Bobby
In reply to Bobby

Well so do I.

And the short answer to the question in this thread is "More and more often you just can't - you have to learn to live with it".

don ricke
don ricke

Just out of curiosity Has anybody contact the USPS postal inspectors?? Most of my items are shipped and unfortunately return under the same conditions as I am reading about ("item not as described"). Seems to me the buyers that are doing this under such fraudulent conditions with the blessing of eBay & Amazon are using the mail service to commit such fraud.
I think maybe an aggressive campaign complaining about this to the postal service could bring some relief also will put pressure on these platforms to alter their policies since they are encouraging it.

Natalia
Natalia

Would you mind sharing your eBay message/e-mail and demand letter templates?

Bogdan
Bogdan

One way to prevent faudulent buyers from ripping you off is to screen them on ebuyersreviewed, which allows sellers to rate their buyers and share ratings.

Scott Brown
Scott Brown

The above article does not express any real solutions.

I know it's over a year old so I won't comment...... I"m terrible at article writing, however the author wants to update this article feel free to reach out and let's see maybe enough publicity can fix the soft fraud and post transactional fraud.

Mark
Mark

To stop claims for not received order follow the courier claims process. Ask the customer sign and complete the form. If you don't record the claim with the courier the buyer will do it again to another seller and there will be no record that they buyer has claimed before.

Ersin Emre
Ersin Emre

I sold a 21.000 USD coffee roaster to US from Germany. Customer opened a Paypal case and asked discount from me. I thought discount is too much and planned to forward the roaster another customer. Than customer get her money back from Paypal and after it taken the roaster from custom. I try to explained the issue Paypal but they never even listen me. I did not pay back Paypal of course. I went to a lawyer to defend me. I think I will win because it is obvious fraud. Let's see, very interesting case.

Ersin Emre
Ersin Emre

Paypal is killer of seller. I will never ever use it again and do not recommend anyone.

Tom
Tom

Peter (July 21 2017) is absolutely right. If you are defrauded (not "scammed"- fraud is a crime) eBay might not help you, they might even be obstructive, but your buyer has still committed a crime, and just because they bought on-line does not make them immune to the law and the consequences of their dishonesty.

FOr smaller amounts the UK has the small claims court, which is not expensive to use. If the buyer that defrauded you fails to attend a court hearing, or otherwise submit a defense, then a judgement can be made against them in absentia, and if they do not pay then they get into bigger trouble.

You can ask for Bailiffs to seize whatever they have of value and sell it. I think that in most cases simply letting the seller know that you re not going to waste your time with eBay and PayPal, but are going to involve the law will change their behaviour and get the result you want. In the worst cases they could end up with a criminal record (if they don't already have one).

Just be sure to send valuable items only to verified addresses in countries that have effective law enforcement like the UK, most other European Union countries, USA, Canada, Australia etc.

David Scott
David Scott

I return 70% of everything i buy on Amazon UK! ...Amazon marketplace is a criminal marketplace that sells junk and defective goods!

I have been a long term customer and i honestly dont know why i bother anymore!

Most are small purchases, and every return was 100% justified and i was refunded.

In the past year i got a faulty Xbox One S, i sent it back and was refunded ...i went to buy an Xbox One X and IT WAS UTTERLY USELESS and faulty to the point i couldn't even get it to start without an error screen! (im a technical guy, i spent 4 days trying) ...i sent it back and now im waiting a refund.

I am UTTERLY convinced that Amazon UK is a marketplace where criminal business traders try to offload defective inferior and just downright BROKEN goods.

...i will miss the convenience of Amazon UK, AS NOW I HAVE DECIDED NO MORE AMAZON FOR me!

I want less stress in my life NOT MORE!

E Tailer
E Tailer
In reply to E Tailer

Amazon is ruthlessly protective of their customers (buyers like you). If reported, it is rare that they permit fraud.

However, buyers need to do their research too - purchase only from a listing that has Amazon fulfilling the order - from their own stock in their warehouse.

Purchasing from 3rd party sellers comes with a certain amount of risk because many new sellers do not understand Amazon methodology and principles.

We should know - we are one of their 3P sellers and have been successful for the past 12 years. Often times, sellers migrate from eBay, where used products are sold and policing abusive sellers is difficult. Typically abusive sellers who do not understand Amazon policies are removed (suspended, in Amazon parlance).

Amazon tracks their metrics very closely - if they observe any abuse (buyer or seller), they are swift in their actions.

Returning high percentage (usually >15%) of orders typically leads to a suspension.

We are curious to know why 70% of your purchases necessitated returns - what kind of products/ services were being purchased?

David Scott
David Scott
In reply to David Scott

...lots of different products, a large variety actually.

Every single one of them had a genuine reason for returning, because of faults and severe lack of quality.

If Amazon ever did try and suspend my account, I wouldn't mind, but because I am honest in all my dealings with them, I would get a lawyer involved.

No one should ever get their Amazon account suspended if they send back faulty goods.

...and I have NEVER heard of anyone getting suspended for returning 15%> ...everyone knows that there are a large portion of criminals who sell on Amazon UK, they will sell any old broken junk! ... personally I have been in receipt of a lot of it.

I try now to stick to just buying direct from Amazon UK (and not the warehouse deals either), so its backed by Amazon UK, otherwise its just a huge risk that you are buying a piece of junk from a broken down criminal warehouse in China.

Bogdan Miltchev
Bogdan Miltchev
In reply to Bogdan Miltchev

Whether buying directly from Amazon UK or a warehouse you will end up buying a Chinese made product. Amazon is just an intermediary. In addition, and counting returns, lost items, and headache dealing with Amazon customer service create 20% + cost to sellers, which not good for the buyers. Betters deals exist outside Amazon.

kameil
kameil

FBA is the best way to go for cosmetics on Amazon. The FBA policy for returns is if the buyer does not return the item after they are refunded, your account is credited. If the buyer claims the item is not received, your account is credited.

The scams for cosmetics is high. However, FBA will shield you from any negative feedback. In one week, I had a buyer claim Amazon shipped her an empty envelope, and she left feedback that she got an empty envelope in my reviews! Then I had a buyer claim their item arrived damaged!! Again, shipped by Amazon, so as a FBA seller, I'm not responsible for the negative feedback.

FBA takes control away from your ability to manage your returns, but it makes it a lot easier when you don't have to worry about chasing down fraud. Amazon will automatically credit your account for all items not returned in 45 days.

on Ebay, [this occurred in the same week with the Amazon scams] I've got a customer who opened 5 tubes of lipsticks, tore them out of the tube and wants me to replace them. Says they arrived damaged!!! What the F!!!! you can clearly see where she ripped the lipstick out. I guess the mail geni opened her mail, tore up the lipstick and resealed the envelope and the cosmetics as she never claimed the items were opened!

It never stops and I do get upset, because I know it's fraud! The lipsticks is an Amazon Choice product and has rave reviews on Ebay.

That is where time over money comes in. I let Amazon handle the scams on Amazon and I'm seriously considering getting off of Feebay. For me, the price I have to charge to cover my expenses outprices my items against the competition. So it's not worth it for me.

Right now, there are a lot of inexperienced cosmetic sellers coming in to the market driving the prices down! I think after six months to a year, they will either figure it out after a huge loss or go out of business! [waiting patiently :) ]

Bogdan Miltchev
Bogdan Miltchev

I have substantially limited my exposure to both eBay and Amazon and use them essentially as a shop window to attract customers and divert to my site. Amazon is full of buyer fraud ignored by Amazon. eBay is about the same. Soon something has to change, but this online scam by Amazon and eBay cannot continue for long.

Bogdan Miltchev
Bogdan Miltchev

The above post is FALSE! eBuyersReviewed.com has nothing to do with badbuyer.com. eBuyersReviewed.com is FREE to post a review of a buyer. ABSOLUTELY FREE! You need to register, but registration is FREE. The good part about them is that reviews are validated after tracking numbers of shipments to buyers are verifies, something no one else does. That creates credibility! On the other sites, you can post bad reviews on anyone you just do not like, which opens a field of abuse and kills credibility. eBuyersReviews is the best place to submit reviews and also screen buyers. Screening is also free for 10 screenings per months. Annual fees are $29.00 a year, well worth it. MERCHANTTAKESNOCRAP is clearly WRONG AND INCOMPETENT!!!

Bobby
Bobby

Oh sod off all of you buyer review sites, all of you are paraistes living off naive people's belief they can make a difference.

You may differ in the way you attach to the host, but are all parasites nonetheless.

And it is for the simple fact that you can not act as a reliable independent source on who is good and who is bad.

Anyone can post any review they want; reviewers can be monitored, but they intentions can not regardless of how much arguments you will bring against in your defense.

Tracking number does not prove anything. Senders can send empty packages and buyers can lie about what they received.

it is all utter BS and anyone spending time and money on reporting buyers is either idealist or stupid.

MerchantTakeNoCrap
MerchantTakeNoCrap

What a bs artist. First he says its free and then he says you have to pay $29.00. Your posts will not go live until you pay. Our reporters questioned this con artist and months went by and not a single post went live. We get an email from him, and he egged us own to start a fight with the buyer that we reported. We know when things get submitted to a search engine and all you hear is lies form him. Badbuyerlist.org is free 24/7 and your not limited to any fees whatsoever. Funny how you contradict yourself in the same paragraph and insult people. Proof of this con job artist. Dont take our word for it, look at his own comments, its all an act for him to line his pockets with your hard earned money so he can leach off you for something you can do for free!

Andy Geldman
Andy Geldman

Please can posters who are connected in any way to a website that they have mentioned, declare their connection in their comment.

To be completely clear, if you mention a website and it is your website, or you are an affiliate/employee/partner/friend/family etc. then you need to say that in your comment.

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator

There is NO SUCH THING as friendly fraud/chargebacks. Buyers know EXACTLY what they are doing. They know how to contact the seller, but they are too stupid and lazy to do so. The only thing they have to do is call their credit card company and have them deal with it. The person who is at fault should be the one paying the chargback fees period. Buyers can chargeback anything off for any reason. There are no guidelines, there is no wait period,e tc. 10 years ago non receipt of merchandise the buyer had to wait 30 days for filing such, now they can file it the second the charge clears, and the buyer does not have to prove anything. You can have all this documentation and any moron can see that the buyer is trying to rip off the merchant, but even if the cardholder's bank decides in the merchants favor, if the buyer wants to rip you off the can file dispute after dispute for the same reason and get away with it.

The only reason why a merchant account would be closed in the first place is (1) if your processing company is a scum bag scam artist and holding funds - under that you are not legally liable for shipping anything out because your not legally paid and your processing company is holding funds causing the chargeback itself - if they require a "reserve" stop processing with them and demand you refund all the funds that were held. your account is basically closed and they will play their games (2) the merchant themselves are violating some sort of contract or they have a high rate of disputes in which the seller is losing them all or the seller provides documentation that proves they are careless.

You have to remember as a seller NO ONE IS ON YOUR SIDE! A buyer scams you report them to badbuyerlist.org at least it will warn other sellers about his con and if someone else runs into a dispute and they find the report, that seller can print that out and use it as evidence that the buyer is doing to everyone they come into contact with.

I dont know who Scott Brown is but you really need to do your research. New is not new, once it trades ownership its used period. You cannot resell new once its been sold. You cant resell a car that just got driven off the lot inches from the curb, that classification is manufacturer refurbished. New means no legal owns, you sold the new product, regardless of whether the box is opened or taken out of the box and never used, its no longer new period.

In regards to PayPal you have to have tracking that shows the product delivered to the confirmed address PayPal tells you. That DOES NOT save the seller and the seller is NOT COVERED. If the tracking shows "left at front door" that does not prove the item was delivered, it was left at the front door. Someone could walk up to the porch and steal it. Furthermore, PayPal IS NOT A CREDIT CARD COMPANY, they are a company with a glorified credit card swipper. PayPal does not make the final decision, the buyer's credit card company does. The buyer can distill dispute the transaction if they paid with their credit card company. $20 bucks out of the sellers pocket for the dispute fee, plus a hold on the disputed amount. Then you are required to get signed proof of delivery or proof that the item was shipped to the confirmed address and the tracking results have to show the full address of it being delivered, or else your screwed. Credit card company's will not accept "product delivered to New York City New York" for the reason how many people live in NYC? It does not show it was delivered to the credit cards physical address. Postal Service records do not show that, only the city and state, you cannot get detailed tracking to show the address, unless your really really good friends with your local postmaster.

Merchant accounts get closed, but rarely does a buyer's credit card gets closed, only when that actual credit card company themselves are put at risk of being sued, or there is some high publicity from the media, a buyer can cause fraud after fraud after fraud and get away with it. A smaller bank might close that persons account, but a larger bank charging them 30% interest as that buyer by the balls. They are not going to close a cash cow with an interest rate of 20-30%. Credit card companys hate people who pay their balances off in full, there no money for them to be made. The buyer's credit card company is not out any money regardless of the number of disputes the buyer files, its the merchant.

With processing company's reputable ones will look at your cases and if your documentation shows you've done everything you can do, then they will not bother you, but if you put them at risk, they will do something about it.

The bottom line is that sellers have no protection from anyone, its you vs everyone. Your getting sales from people you dont eve know from a hole in the wall. The buyer will do anything to make threats, excuses and do everything possible t make your business harder to do. There are a majority of buyers especially those who do computers that will file fraud disputes and make up every excuse possible to steal from you. They know the tricks because they've done it so many times before. Dont let a buyer make demands and have them tell you how to run their business, if they start demanding things and are trying to get you to break your own policies, refund the ahole, blacklist them and move on with your business, you dont need that type of buyer. if you do, then you'll find yourself spending more time filling out dispute paperwork than actually running your own business. make policies, use jotform to have these buyers complete forms that get them to sign a document saying these are your policies. thats what we do, and we catch these people in such lies its not even funny. This is something that these people brought upon themselves because of the way they love to abuse merchants and steal.

Paypal Terminator
Paypal Terminator

Oh and if there is a dispute filed with PayPal and you only have tracking from the USPS that shows only the city and state, the buyer's credit card company is going to require the physical address of the credit card's billable address and it being verified. PayPal is not the exception to this rule, they must follow Visa, Mastercard guidelines. If you only have this information, PayPal might come up with some made up story saying oh we are just giving you the funds back of their good business relation, LAUGHABLE! The real reason is that they lost the dispute because there was no physical address and because you could sue PayPal for losing the dispute, they rather take the loss because they'd have no case if they lost the case on account on you submitted information that PayPal stated thats all you need to submit. Their case in court would be so hard to prove that every seller would gang up on them. So instead of being sued, they give the seller the money, makeup some story, and your none the wiser.

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator

Correction to Scott. No people can do whatever they want. People have sold items that were used as new. Its the buyer if they are stupid enough to believe it, of if the items look like new they can say, oh we just tested it out to make sure everything works. If the item has no scratches or anything else and has been cleaned properly, how do you know if its used. I just got a moron from Maryland, bought 20 mice and they were all new the stupid b*tch made up a lie and said they were all used because we didnt include the receiver of the original packing. But they still did a chargeback.

Just Devastated
Just Devastated

Also had a bad buyer who peeled the library sticker off a old book & complained about the sticky residue under the sticker. This was after he wanted expedited shipping at a $7 cost. Shipped out same day book from 1947. Might I mention also took about 6 hours to find the book in the large inventory of books. Then he gets it and peels sticker off & complains. I told him to send it back, so what does he do, ships it the most expensive way he can, 2 day shipping at a high cost, when book could of been shipped for under $3. Seems he does everything in a rush.
Then leaves bad feedback after I didn't refund that extra shipping cost. He picked the expensive way 2 day to ship it back, I didn't. I had already given him a full refund even when others said not to and now the book is destroyed. Seems he wanted it expedited so he could drop ship it to another person for more money. Saw a Bad Buyer Site and considering adding his name to it. Book was a excellent price for a 1947 book and in very nice shape. I had any flaws mentioned in ad but he still destroyed my feedback rating and book and now won't even respond to email asking how to rectify situation. I don't usually stalk buyers online but after this clown I did check into him. I saw online where he has a bunch of names and addresses tied to his name, hmm can't imagine what that is about. I can't believe the way some customers treat sellers. All the time and work, supplies, ink you use and for what to get a bad feedback for no reason. Was already upset over some deaths in the family then to have this person destroy my rating just really frosted my cake.

Bobby
Bobby
In reply to Bobby

Niche business like that does not belong online or at the very least on on eBay.

Online trade is based on the assumption that most people are honest, which I guess is true, but it only can be used as a business foundation if you have enough volume to establish basic support level.

If you have a few sales only then the margin for error is higher and you're left vulnerable.

Sites like eBay absolutely go with the large volume and rules for large volume.

They say "take the loss as cost of doing business and move on" and from their point of view they are correct.

Vendors - including myself - have hard time processing the simple fact that not all businesses are created equal.

If you sell Chinese imports you buy and sell by hundreds or thousands then 5 or 10 or even 100 returns / broken / cheated won't make significant dent in the business.

if you sell 10 books a month and 1 of them is a cheater you're automatically set more than 10% back.

Ironically, I happen to be one of the first to have introduced certain business model on eBay back at the time and now 10 years later I fully understand why it didn't belong there in the first place...but it's too late now and if it wasn't me it would have been someone else anyway :-)

Scott Brown
Scott Brown
In reply to Scott Brown

All the major "marketplaces" give all the benefit to the customer. Complaints and returns processes are all 100% customer favor "cookie cutter" responses. That is because they don't know the products they are providing customer service for.

Google Express, the new player on this block is doing the same thing.
Target Plus will soon do the same thing.

There is no winning as a seller. You have to accept the losses as "cost of doing business" or get out of the sand box.

Sellers need to remove categories or products where historically they lose the most in for returns or claims/complaints.

Paypal Terminator
Paypal Terminator

Never mind what the buyers say. Most of them are scam artist that your never going to see ever, nor would you see them buying from you again. you create policies and you stick with those policies. These buyers are there to abuse as much as they can and get away with stealing products from you. They will abuse the system to get free merchandise. Dont go head over heals for someone who is trying to con you. State your return policies clearly and stick to them. Buyers know they are in a legal agreement but they dont care they always want things their own way even if you loose money they dont care just as long as you kiss their ass and give them free stuff.

David Scott
David Scott
In reply to David Scott

I agree with many of your points.

Customers become passive and will buy with you again if you 'kiss their ass and give them free stuff' ...but only resort to this if you are at fault, otherwise send them on their way.

I completely disagree with this statement > 'Never mind what the buyers say. Most of them are scam artist' .

...If you think like this about your customers, you are going to fail, you are going to attract trouble and you will most definitely end up mistreating genuine customers who have an honest and legal problem with your products.

Sticking to your policy is important, be clear and precise in your ads.

if you post a product with incorrect images, wrong information or missing details .. you are inviting trouble and there are buyers who purposely look for this and will take advantage.

Buyers hate bad quality, faulty products.
Buyers hate misleading or false product descriptions.
Buyers hate being ignored when they have a problem.
Buyers hate unprofessional or uncaring sellers.

Bad buyers or 'con artists' and 'scammers' will prey on all of the above !

...so how do you save yourself from bad buyers ?

Make sure you are obeying all the rules, selling a product that has been tested fully, designed well and something you as the business owner or seller know is of good standard. Also make sure you have excellent communication when a customer has a problem. Listen to them, and resolve the problem. If its your fault, admit it and apologise ... but also you will need to refund them, or give them something for free.

...and if you don't , you will attract negativity, bad reviews and also bad buyers who will purposely try to run you into the ground.

Simply put, respect your customers and don't sell cheap broken crap - quality and design is extremely important.

As a buyer, I can honestly say that there are more 'BAD' sellers than there are bad buyer and scammers ... if a business neglectfully or knowingly sells you cheap or faulty products, then they are criminals and they shouldn't be legally permitted to trade anywhere online.

Buyers need to be honest, discerning and wise when buying.
Sellers need to be honest, discerning and wise when selling.

bad buyers need to frak off and go to jail!

Bobby Kolev
Bobby Kolev
In reply to Bobby Kolev

"As a buyer, I can honestly say that there are more 'BAD' sellers than there are bad buyer and scammers ..."

This is SO OFF THE CHARTS WRONG..if only for the simple reason that there are a whole lot more buyers out there than there are sellers and that one single buyer can nearly shut down a seller where 100 sellers working together can not practically stop a single bad buyer from being bad :-)

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator
In reply to PayPal Terminator

This is the typical reason why when buyers like this try to scam us, you get sent to collections, it goes on your police report, and you are sent to court. If you dont show up, you get a warrant issued for your arrest. What you xxx buyers do is called shop lifting, petty larceny. You knowingly and purposely stealing from someone. You just dont have the xxxx to steal infront of someone, you go through a credit card company, thinking you can hide like cowards and make up any bs lie you want. Hope you purchase from us and file a falsifed dispute, by time we get done with you, you'll think twice about doing it again.

PayPalTerminator
PayPalTerminator
In reply to PayPalTerminator

Nope. Well there are honest buyers out there, you get that 1 in 10 scumbag that will try to scam you. The fact the only reason you'd have repeat customers is only if they need or want something from you. And if your the lowest price around. They could care less about you as the seller, they care about themselves and thats the point blank truth. You dont know them from a whole in the wall, all you see is $$$. Once they get what they want, you never see them again. Repeat business is less than 1% of your total sales. Unless you have products they want, you got great customer service and new stuff doesnt mean anything, unless you have a demand for products people want. All that bs customer service etc etc comes last. Its all about what you have is what they want, and if your the cheapest. Thats why people shop online is because of the word FREE.

BM
BM

Buyers if aware of fraudulent sellers can decide not to buy. It rarely happens though especially if you buy from established venues such as eBay, who more often than not will shut down and seller for any or no reason just to please a buyer. Sellers, can also avoid or refuse to ship to a buyer whose reputation has been reported as bad on eBuyersReviewed.com or other such sites. They simply cancel the order and move on.

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator
In reply to PayPal Terminator

No not true. There are 10x more scam artist buyers than they are sellers. It may have started that way decades ago, but once the buyers knew they can screw over anyone that they will never see in their lives, they scam people left and right. Especially when credit card companies (which should be sued for advertising and promoting fraud) do commericals that tell the buyer to file a dispute and there's no problem. Thats the problem, they allow buyers to file disptues and give the impression its free merchandise. The fact that its harder to sue someone from a 5 states away than your local backyard is another reason why buyers do it. They figure sellers are too lazy to do it. And the ones that dont the buyers will make up any lie and excuse possible. Credit card companies know it, but the also know they rack up large amounts of $$$ at the sellers expense in dispute fees, thats why its allowed until sellers start suing credit card companies, banks, paypal and amazon

PayPalTerminator
PayPalTerminator
In reply to PayPalTerminator

First off, if your so worried about being scammed from Ebay and/or Amazon, buy from a repuatable store or company. You know even before going to Ebay and/or Amazon, you know there's a chance of being scammed. Not because of the person because of Ebay or Amazon. They purposely get rid of any evidence that shows people get scammed. thats why Ebay sellers cant leave negative feedback for buyers, or if there's a scam listing, it gets removed immediately and no one finds out, they get rid of the listing including any feedback related to it.

The only reason why anyone goes to these type of garage sale type places is because of price. They will go to these wanna be stores over $.25 cents of a lower price. There are other sites where you can get the same thing for the same price. Sellers are getting sick and tired of these bs things they have to put up with with Amazon and Ebay. Places like EblueJay, and other 3rd party sites have the same sellers on ebay and amazon. they go there because they are not being raped alive with listing and commisson fees, so the prices are cheaper.

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator
In reply to PayPal Terminator

Oh please eBuyersReviewed.com is operated by a scum bag that will not report anything unless you pay him to do it. he's a 2 year old. He's a wanna be badbuyerlist.org. Your report will stay where it is an he will not publish it. He will then egg you on into contacting the buyer and getting into a fight with the buyer who ripped you off. This person that owns that site makes money off you. Go to Badbuyerlist.org its free. This snake oil dealer is trying to cash in on your misfortune. If he responds to this post he will just site more of his lies and bs.

King Kong
King Kong
In reply to King Kong

PayPal terminator, can you release your name so I can have you sued for defamation and make a buck off of that. You are clearly working for badbuyerslist, which is an inferior site and built on poor premises. Good luck! Look at traffic and content and then wake up!

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator
In reply to PayPal Terminator

OH GEEZE Get real. I use badbuyerlist and it works. Im a seller sick and tired of buyers ripping us off. Wow get a clue!

will
will

has anyone sued a buyer and been successful as we just lost a delivered item of 199.99 to an amazon a-z claim yet again, seems more and more scammers are abusing the a-z system as it is just so easy. we did upload the wrong tracking but we got the correct one now and filed an appeal with it but still was denied. amazon is a internet thug that helps scammers steal your product and money

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator
In reply to PayPal Terminator

First thing you have to know is that places like eBay, PayPal, and especially Amazon will screw the seller over each and every time. Their attitude is that we dont need you but you need us. They will screw the seller over every single time for the main reason, they are scared the buyer will file a credit card chargeback and have the money taken away from them. They also are paranoid that the seller will tell them to F themselves and go some place else. So in order to avoid the chargeback, they will immediately side with the buyer and give them the money back. You as the seller have no course of action except to ban together and file a law suit against them. They will then manipulate their terms of service saying "its ok if we steal from you."

The only way places like ebay and Amazon will stop it, is that if they are exposed and their $$$$ is effected. You need to contact the the Attorney Generals Office and the FTC and file complaints against them. If you can get an attorney to do it for you, its 100x more powerful.

As far as the buyer, report them to Ripoff Report and badbuyerlist.org for starters. Do a backgrund check on mylife.com and report them there. Confirm that the address you have on file is that of the buyer. Send them 1 letter stating you committed petty larceny and contact the local police department and send a copy to the buyer with your information not there. If they dont pay, then file a law suit. You can add any expenses to the amount the person stole from you. If they dont show up, get a collection agency and make sure the debt is placed on their credit report.

Just make sure you have evidence to back up everything your stating. Just fair warning everything and we mean everyone and everything is geared towards the consumer and screwing over companies. That's why these scumbag buyers do it in the first place.

will
will
In reply to will

I agree, just lost 200 because i put up wrong tracking number, never heard from buyer and amazon never needed my input for the a-z, I updated tracking in 2 seconds from learning and it was delivered today so now buyer isn't contacting us and not sure if i can file a police report within her district or what to do?

will
will
In reply to will

nevermind, I told her we were filing a police report and told her the name of her police station near her as well as telephone and mentioned we would be hiring a lawyer in her area name given as well as she retracted her a-z claim, amazing how stupid some buyers can be but i was actually planning on doing what i say, I am not all talk like most, i take action as tired of these scammers, the court of law will recognize tracking/GPS as delivered unlike amazon who breaks federal laws and doesn't consider usps delivered

Hong Kong
Hong Kong
In reply to Hong Kong

We sellers should be united and fight for our rights. eCommerce is an unclaimed territory as far as the law goes. Most judges are not educated enough to know what really goes on. Best of luck!!!

paypal terminator
paypal terminator
In reply to paypal terminator

Ecommerce an unclaimed Territory. Ecommerce has been around sine 1995. so your saying something that has been around for 25 years is still unclaimed. Can you release your name as well! Not going to bother to comment on this one wow. Ecommerce has an unclaimed territory judges dont know what goes on. oh boy!

First off, eCommerce has been around 25 years maybe longer. You steal from an online retailer its called shop lifting. No different. Its called Petty Larceny. Whether its online or a retail store your still committing a crime. The reason why the seller has to sue in the buyer's home state, is because thats where the crime is being committed and nothing more! The fact that bank encourage buyers to commit fraud is because they say "oh you got a problem file a dispute and we'll do everything". Buyers file disputes and hide behind their own credit card companies. Buyers can lie through their teeth and have to supply no evidence. The whole system is lost in the 1800s because they dont want to give up on the money maker. 19-29% interest on a credit card, your going to do nothing to stop the money train from stopping!

The fact is, sellers have to send a message to these companies, the government and especially visa, masterard, amex, and discover and say we're not going to take this crap anymore. Without us processing credit cards, there's no money to be made! They crap on all off us thinking that we need them to run a business. Buyers are stupid! All of the sudden they pay cash. the banks says oh use your debit or credit card, spend $25000 and get a free $99 air plane ticket, oh btw your paying us $100 a year in a membership fee for that rewards program and it will take you 3 years to spend $25000 on the credit card at 22% interest. Now you got 4 people sitting at a diner asking for 6 separate checks so they can charge $2 on it.

Buyers have to shown that sellers arent going to put up with their BS and if they even try to rip sellers off there are consquences of it. Badbuyerlist and others make the buyer known to sellers that that person has scammed. Once someone is exposed, they are full grown people that dont want anyone to know what they did.

Yesterday, we received a chargeback from a 80 year old physician. That claimed, he didnt authorize the purchase 2 months after he physically signed for it. We had a sales order confirmation and a signed online invoice with his signature. The form basically said are you the authorizes signer and did you authorize the transaction. He knew all this, the IP address matched his credit card, and even public records showed his name, phone number, address matching that of the credit card. So why would a 80 year old thats a doctor, knowing full well that he signed numerous documents admitting he purchased the item and had the item delivered to his credit card billable address, be stupid enough to make a claim like that when he knew we could easily prove it wrong, and ontop of that directly below the signature, it said we will send you to court if you try to commit fraud, and he still did it anyway!

Because he's under the impression he can rip anyone off and get away with it, that nothing will happen to him. So he gets posted on badbuyer and other review sites like ripoffreport, so he is exposed. When he finds his own customers seeing what he's done, then he'll be embarassed, come up with lies, etc. And the next time he tries to rip off another merchant, he will think twice thinking, if a seller exposed him once another one will as well, and the other seller will use that ripoff or badbuyer filing from the other seller, to establish that the buyer has a history of commit fraud. We're not repsonding to bing bonds comments, but establishing the reason for sellers not to take anything from buyers who try to rip you off, and say to credit card companies you need us more than we need you!

Now your going to say that online identity theft is an unclaimed territory and judges dont know anything, Amazon, eBay, sites like eBlueJay, eBid, and ever payment service is an un claimed territory. WOW!

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator
In reply to PayPal Terminator

That person was more than likely doing it for the first time because she thought everyone else is doing. Since you didnt kiss her ass, you stuck to your guns. What you do now, is take that documentation of her closing the claim and save it. She did damage because Amazon still looks at it as a seller problem. Amazon only breaks laws when they get caught and they do what they do is because no seller is bothering to report them.

Andy Geldman
Andy Geldman

We ask that the discussions here are kept civil, and the comments about sites such as Bad Buyer List and eBuyersReviewed have gone beyond that now.

Please don't post any further comments about these sites.

Paypal Terminator
Paypal Terminator
In reply to Paypal Terminator

Sorry dude, but everything we said about Ebuyers is true. He kept on emailing us encouraging us to get into a heated battle with the buyers we reported, and no doubt he did the same thing about the buyers reported since he had their contact information, he wanted to do that just to collect the fees from it. It was email after email over and over again. All the reports he so called advertised where never posted but just sitting there and sat there for months until out of no were we had to pay him money.

Bogdan Miltchev
Bogdan Miltchev

Any Perhaps webtailer could have its own screening of foul language to prevent such drama not unlike yahoo does. Point well taken.

Bobby
Bobby

This whole "buyer screening" policy debate is pointless.

eBay has best interest in having zero troubles and a whole lot more resources at their disposal to catch both bad sellers and bad buyers and they do the best they can.

Everyone can make a 3rd party website where everyone else can go and report anyone else; that's why there are so many websites all mimicking what bbb once used to be.

None of them works, including BBB.

It may appear that they do work, because most customers are OK and they approve them fine; but you want them to work in those rare cases where a scammer wants to go through and then they do not, again, for a very simple to understand reason - scammers can very easily change identity.

Feel free to believe whatever you want.

I personally think this is all about someone either naive enough to think otherwise or, more likely, promoting their website.

Paypal terminator
Paypal terminator
In reply to Paypal terminator

Exactly said. the BBB is nothing but a paper pushing service. They record what the buyer says, the seller responds and nothing else. Seller gets ripped off the only course of action is a law suit and suing the buyer for petty larceny and making the buyer's actions public. The buyer will see the post and choose to respond to it by making lying comments to immediately put the blame on the seller, or just come out with slanderous comments and never bother to address anything the seller is accusing them of. That's proof right there the buyer is the con artist. The fact the buyer got caught in trying to scam people, now his chances of doing it again diminish, and now embarasement falls in. No different than being stoned in public for stealing in old times.

Mercury
Mercury

I said this about 3 years ago, eBay simply doesn't care about it's sellers, they never have and never will. It was the beginning of the end for sellers when eBay removed the option of sellers being able to leave Neg feedback. Yes they gave a reason for it, but it just gave buyers a free pass to do whatever they want.
It's even a violation to leave a false positive, i.e. positive feedback with a negative comment.
Blocking a buyer does nothing, reporting them to eBay merely wastes your own time.
I've had my share of scammers in my time but what I'm getting now is buyers who simply won't pay. They bid, they can leave a bid on an item days before it ends but when it ends and comes time to pay, they just don't.
It baffles me every time it happens. Despite the slab of messages sent to the buyers both from me and eBay, the buyer just remains silent; no emails, no contact, nothing.
I even give them a way out by telling them that if they've changed their mind to simply let me know. All I get is silence.
EBay will then open a non-payment case and send the buyer more messages. Again silence from the buyer.
EBay will eventually close the case and give me "final credit fee" and relist the item on my behalf. The buyer is then put on some list which means squat to me, all I want is the money I was promised.

I've had an ongoing war with eBay as to why they don't force payment when clearly there's a legal contract of sale. All they reply with is bland reasurances about this non payment list and that eBay will monitor the buyer if they do this repeatedly. Not sure how that helps me and my current sale exactly and I've never found any evidence of a buyer getting any kind of comeuppance from eBay. If I don't pay my fees, my account is suspended and I'm threatened with debt collectors. A buyer just gets away with it and is free to do it again and again.

Trying to nail eBay down into some kind of defined commitment to their sellers is like trying to catch a cloud. EBay responders are full of misdirection and recalcitrant attitudes and that's if you manage to get a reply that even relates to your initial query or complaint. Pointing out to them the amount of anti-ebay websites, youtube videos or the fact that eBay has failed to attract new buyers/sellers of any significance is ignored.

I can't see how a website listing bad buyers would have any real impact on day to day transactions and may only serve to alert buyers to serial scammers, providing that the buyer doesn't change their name, their email address or anything else that indicates they're the same person. There are plenty of buyers on eBay who have had accounts stretching back years and and may have only bought a handful of things. An ad hoc buyer with stats like this could fly under the radar for years before they're discovered as suddenly going rogue. I don't think there's any total solution to bad buyers as no matter what system gets put in place, there'll be someone doing their best to exploit loopholes.

PayPal Terminator
PayPal Terminator
In reply to PayPal Terminator

Always asked ourselves that question. The answer is that you cant. Until credit card companies make the buyer be held responsible for their fraudulent actions. Nothing is going to change. They are going to be encouraged to commit more fraud and get away with it because they are allowed to. Its going to grow bigger and bigger until sellers and anyone that processes credit cards, say we're not going to take it, and go take another form of payment, but because credit cards are thrown in everyone's face, unless sellers and merchants start suing mastercard, visa, etc. for the fraud they allowed the cardholder to initiate, its going to continue. legally if you can prove your case and you lose, you can sue the credit card company of the buyer for aiding and abetting to the fraud. Remember as screwed up as this sounds, its up to the buyer's own credit card company to make the final decision on the buyer's claims during a chargeback, and who do you think they are going to favor. Especially in a prearb. We've heard cases where the buyer would file a dispute and they'd loose and then fire a PreArb and then for the same reason and evidence presented the seller losses. And thats a scam!

paypal terminator
paypal terminator

Ebay still doesnt care and dont ever get into that false sense of security. The only reason why they did what they did was the fact they knew the band wagon ride was over and sellers were getting pissed off at ebay to the point alot of them were not going to take it any longer, others move away from eBay to other sites, and they reliezed their bottom line revenues were at stake. They also didnt want to get all that bad publicity and ruin their image. They do it now, they have done it in the past, and so on. Why cant sellers leave negative feedback to buyers, when its the seller is the one that is going to stick around longer. Id accomidate the seller because they are the ones paying the bills and keeping the site alive, not the buyers. There's point where everyone has enough, and they all have to ban together and hit them with one sharp blow. Its your money, its your product and our work, ebay and paypal sit back and do nothing. The original ebay software was some off the shelf product.

Justin
Justin

Many things that bad buyers do constitute mail fraud and the solution may be for buyers to file complaints with the relevant law enforcement agencies

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